Orchard People

[00:00:00] The Ancient Apple Trees of Kazakhstan
Up in the Tian Shan mountains of Kazakhstan in Central Asia, apple trees grow in the wild. These native apple trees have been thriving here for thousands of years. In ancient times, they provided food for nomadic tribes, for bears and for birds. And while empires in this region would rise and fall, these wild apple trees, today classified as Malus sieversii survived.
As it turns out, the Malus sieversii apple trees from Kazakhstan are the ancestors of all the apples that we buy in our shops today. Now, how did that happen?
[00:00:43] The Journey of Apples to Europe
Over a thousand years ago, travelers and traders enjoyed the fruit and brought the seeds back home with them, hoping to plant these apple trees in their communities.
The seeds went from Asia to Europe, and in Europe, these trees were hybridized with native crabapple trees. Those native crabapples were called Malus sylvestris. And they were also hybridized with other species over the years. So pretty much all of the apples we find in our shops and supermarkets today are the descendants of this mix of species.
So we know that Malus sieversii originated in Kazakhstan. And we know that Malus sylvestris was native to Europe. But what about North America? Do we have native apple trees too? The answer is yes.
[00:01:37] Introduction to Native North American Apple Trees
And that is what we are going to talk about on the show today. My guest is Paul Kron, a researcher from the Plant Population and Evolution Research Lab at the University of Guelph in Ontario.
And he will tell us about native apple trees. We'll explore how they're different from domesticated apple trees, and we'll also talk about how you can identify them.
[00:02:02] Meet Paul Kron: Apple Tree Expert
So now welcome Paul Kron to the show today.
Thank you for joining me.
Hi Susan. Thanks for inviting me.
So I'm excited to hear how you describe what is a native apple tree?
How is it different from
domesticated apple trees or
even wild or feral apple trees?
[00:02:22] Understanding Native vs. Feral Apple Trees
Okay, so I'll start just by quickly saying that the apple tree you've just described coming out of Asia, with Malus sieversii as its ancestor, we now call Malus domestica. It's the domestic apple we're all familiar with.
we grow them obviously in orchards and our yards and it's usually cultivars that we have names for, like Mcintosh and Northern Spy. Seeds from these trees will escape into the wild and start growing along fence rows and fields and just the edges of people's property.
and since they're no longer cultivated, we call them feral apples. They're basically wild apples in the sense they've escaped from cultivation. Now that's different from the native crabapple, which is a Malus coronaria, which is a completely separate species that's native to North America and grows in similar sorts of habitats as the domestic apples that escape from captivity.
they tend to intermingle with them out there in the wild.
So you talk about these feral apples that escaped from captivity. Boy we're so mean. We keep our apple trees in captivity in orchards. is it possible that some of these feral apple trees also include some of the genetics of the native apple tree?
Maybe we have all sorts of native apple trees out there.
[00:03:48] Hybridization and Genetic Studies
One of the questions we were interested in our lab was whether, once these domestic apples escape and become feral, do they hybridize with Malus coronaria, and do we get hybrids between the two? And the answer is partly yes and mostly no.
because we do find, some, we have found at least one tree that's definitely a hybrid between the two species. But, in all the trees we've tested out there, we generally don't find any evidence that there's any major hybridization going on between domestic apples and the native crabapple.
[00:04:28] Listener Questions and Emails: What is a Native Apple
Okay, we have a quick email here from Julianne. Julianne says, just saying hi and thank you for doing this show. And Julianne is from Scarborough, Ontario. And let's see, is there another email here? No, I think that's it for the moment.
Okay, so we know that these native apple trees exist. Are there lots of them? Like, how come people don't know about this? In fact, sometimes when I put on the internet, hey, we're going to learn about native apple trees and people say to me, no, there's no such thing as a native North American apple tree. Why is there that misconception?
[00:05:06] Distribution and Misconceptions of Native Apple Trees
first of all, in Ontario, there is one species of native apple tree, the one that I've mentioned, the Malus coronaria. In the U. S. There's two other closely related species to Malus coronaria. And, out west on the west coast there's another species called Malus fusca as well. but the reason people I think generally don't know about them, is because in Ontario they're a Carolinian tree species.
So you see them In Norfolk County and Essex County, down around the Niagara Peninsula, but, generally, the farthest north they occur is Cambridge, London, Burlington, possibly some along the lake shore in Toronto, although we haven't confirmed that. So first of all, they're restricted to very southern Ontario.
And, also they don't seem to be terribly common. and I think the third factor is if you don't spot them when they're flowering in the spring, you're not going to spot them at all because they're just small trees. usually don't get more than about 15 feet tall at the most, I would say, usually less than that.
And the fruit in the fall is just small little green apples that people might not notice either.
Interesting. So we got an email here from Sylvia. Sylvia is from Toronto. She says, Hi, my name is Sylvia.
[00:06:43] Growing and Using Native Apple Trees
I want to grow native apple trees. Thank you for your radio show today. So is that something that you know of a lot of homeowners and people who are actually trying to grow these trees themselves?
Is it yummy fruit or what's the appeal?
I know that some people have said they use them for applesauce and cider and things like that. they're very bitter, they're sour and bitter. so that's probably the only kind of use you'd have for them. I can see how people would just want to grow them as a native tree.
They have attractive flowers, for example. They're only hardy and in the southern regions of Ontario. So you probably can't push it too hard, growing them farther north. and also I'm not sure you get hold of them. but, I wouldn't recommend people just collecting seeds from trees if they find a tree in the wild
and collect the seeds and grow them. there's a very high probability you're going to get hybrids in there, so you might not have an actual pure Malus coronaria anyway.
So we have an email here from Richard. Richard says, Hello, I have a 30 tree orchard in the state of Virginia, USA.
[00:08:09] Pollination and Genetic Testing
Is the native crabapple an acceptable pollinator for a domesticated apple orchard? Thanks so much. Now that's from Richard.
Okay. this is a slightly more complicated question than you might think, because in Virginia, probably it would be one of the other native species in that area, Malus ioensis or Malus, I believe it's angustifolia.
And, one of them, one of those species is diploid. and the other ones are either tetraploid or a mix. And, I probably should explain that for a moment. Okay, so most domestic apples are diploids, which means for every gene, they've got two copies of that gene. One they got from their mother, one they got from their father.
and that's the most common level of ploidy, we say. crabapples, Malus coronaria, are tetraploid, which means They have four copies of every gene, they get two from the father and two from the mother.
the problem is when you cross a tetraploid and a diploid, the seeds are going to be mostly triploid, which means that most of them simply abort and don't develop, and if the seeds aren't developing, the fruit's not going to develop. So if you were going to use a native tree as a pollinator, you'd want to make sure it was one of the diploid ones.
That's a little tricky. Okay. So that's something to research a little further. We might talk a little bit more about that soon, but yeah, with triploids, when you're choosing apple trees, often you're thinking, if it's a triploid, just don't even think that it's going to pollinate anything, just think of it as a sterile tree.
So you're watching out for those. so I guess it depends where Richard gets the tree. He's got to make sure that it's going to be one that will be able to cross pollinate. So that's a great question. Thank you very much for that. we have a question from Jim and Nora. just saying hi, listening from Oxford Mills, Ontario in Eastern Ontario.
they say we seem to have a lot of feral apple trees, which are growing along our fence rows between the different fields on our farm. How can we identify them? So we're going to talk in lots more detail about identifying feral trees or unknown trees a little later, so we can touch upon that.
But first of all, can we determine that they're not native trees? How? Let's start with how would we figure out if these trees on the fence line are actually native apple trees rather than feral apple trees? What do they look like?
Okay. the native crabapple is, first of all, it's a small tree.
So if your apple trees are large, they look like a sort of a typical apple tree size. It's probably not a crabapple. It's not a native crabapple. there's differences in the flower color, the natives, the Malus coronaria has a nice pale pink flower, whereas domestic apples are typically white flowers, although some have streaks of pink in them.
the crabapples are a little bit thorny. They're small blunt thorns, but you can usually find them. And also the leaf shape is different, where apple leaves are that basically an oval kind of a leaf with fine teeth around the edges. the crabapples have at least some leaves that are almost lobed, three lobed, and they have very coarse teeth on them.
Now if you go to our website, if you go to www. husbandlab. ca, and then there's a link for the Ontario Heritage and Feral Apple Project. If you follow that link, you'll see that within our Heritage Apple Project website, there's a, whole page about Malus coronaria and it has pictures showing the differences between the leaves and fruit and and flowers and everything, for domestic apples.
Malus coronaria, other crabapple species, hawthorns, things that people confused with the native crabapple.
So now part two of the question is, so let's say they've determined, no, their tree, they've looked at the pictures, their trees do not have those beautiful light pink blossoms that are so unique to the native crabapple.
And I want to describe, it's just such a pretty pink. It's such a soft, pastel y pink. You just don't see it on other apple trees. But they have these other, they're feral, escaped from domestication, apple trees. And I know we'll talk about it a bit more later, but how would they be able to identify, is this a Red Delicious mixed with, Mccintosh or what is this?
What are these trees?
The genetic testing we do, it can be used to match up an unknown tree to a database of cultivars that we have. So we can identify if, the tree is actually a planted cultivar, we can often identify which one it is. But if it's a feral tree that came up from a seed,
it's going to be a mix of cultivars, and in that case, we can sometimes, identify possible parents for it. So we might be able to say, your tree probably just grew from a seed, but it looks like its mother was probably a Duchess, or something like that.
So,
that's interesting. And, Hey, if the fruit is fantastic on these wild trees, maybe, they can clip off branches, propagate it, make a million dollars with the newest Honeycrisp apple or whatever it is.
So yeah, why not? Okay. We've got an email from John. Hi, Susan, enjoying the show. Interesting as always. he says, Up around Uxbridge, Ontario, I notice a lot of old apple trees along the edges of old farming properties, growing along the side roads. They still bear, and they look pretty hardy. are these likely escapees, or what the original farmers have planted these along the edge of the property. They're not typically near the farmhouses. Very curious about Paul's thoughts on that. Thank you, and that's from John.
it's a good question. So far our experience is, if it's growing along a, like a hedgerow, a fence line, along the side of the road, chances are it's an escapee. So it's not a cultivar. I have been told by one person who was sending us apples for testing that they had read about farmers sometimes planting apple trees on the edges of their property to save space. so it is possible that can occur, but so far we haven't seen any evidence of that.
we had a student in our lab, Dane Cronin, who did a project where he tested, about 600 feral apple trees, collected from along roadsides. and out of all of those, there was exactly one tree that was identified as an actual cultivar and he suspected that might have been a planted tree before he even collected it.
So mostly they're not cultivars.
So when people are talking about, some of the people who are writing in, they may grow other types of apple trees or other types of fruit trees. some people are interested in just planting native plants because it's green. it may be good for pollinators, it may be good for native insects, what are the advantages of having these native apple trees exist nearby, near us?
there's the basic biodiversity argument that, more diverse ecosystems are healthier. And obviously there's always a desire to not allow a species to go extinct. So there's basic arguments like that.
I think in terms of. just human use. as I mentioned, some people do use them for cider and things like that. I was thinking also about the pollinators. It is possible that the native trees are providing resources for native pollinators, for example.
but also these feral apple trees might be doing that as well. So there's, different ways they can be participating in the ecosystem. Providing food for native species and, also pollen.
So we have an email here from Sue. Hello, Susan and Paul. Happy New Year to the both of you. And Sue is from Oklahoma. Thank you so much, Sue. To you too. Happy New Year coming up. okay. Finally, before we dig into some other genetic details, which I really want to dip into with you, I want to talk about disease.
I know that sometimes when you go, like I have a ravine near me and you go into the ravine and that there are some feral apple trees there and they are covered with, scab, various problems that would easily spread to my apple trees in my orchard, in my backyard, wherever. so do these trees get those diseases or are they heartier than that?
And are they actually magnets for those diseases? Would it be bad for me to plant a native apple tree near my orchard?
There's two main points here I'd like to touch on. First of all, it is possible that in some cases the feral trees are more resistant to some pests, just because the ones that, you're getting this real mix of traits when you produce the apples from seed, and it's always possible you're going to get hardier ones, more resistant ones, and obviously they would do a little better in the wild.
So you can have a little bit of natural selection starting there, where maybe the ones that are very prone to pests and diseases just die out quickly, for example. I don't know that we have any real evidence for that yet, but that's one thing. It's interesting, the question whether you should plant them near your orchard, for example.
It's interesting because The Ontario Ministry of Agriculture actually recommends that you cut down feral apple trees near orchards for that very reason that they could be harboring pests and diseases. And in fact, at one point when we talked to someone from the ministry about the project we were planning of sampling feral trees along roads, they said, Oh, you probably won't find very many.
Because we tell people to cut them down and that clearly isn't advice that's being followed because they're really everywhere along roads and fence lines. So, there is, I think, an official recommendation that it might be a bad idea to leave feral trees in place, for that reason. Hey,
that feels, it feels very harsh.
It's go look at the tree first. And if it's healthy and not, hey, that's just mean, actually, I'm going to read one. Sorry, go ahead.
and also, I'm sure they may harbor pests, some pests and that, but they, also support, pollinators, so they could be also providing positive resources too.
Absolutely. Absolutely. So I don't know that I 100 percent agree with that little Good of advice, but we've got an email here that I got earlier that I really want to share because Paul, you said, gee, I don't even know where people would buy a native apple tree. So I was on Facebook recently and got this fantastic lead and got an email from Jessica.
Jessica is from the County of Wellington. Green Legacy Program in Ontario. So Jessica wrote me when I asked her for some more information and she says, the Green Legacy Program grows and distributes native trees and shrubs to residents of Wellington County. So they get these trees for free. Our native crabapple is just one of about 40 to 50 species in our inventory.
We're encouraging residents to plant it because of its benefits to wildlife. Many mammals consume the fruit and the showy pink flowers are pollinated by bees. This is the first year we've had it available, and it was so popular that we are already sold out. For more information on the County of Wellington's Green Legacy program, you can go to www.
greenlegacy. ca. So people are selling native apple trees. There is lots more to learn about it.
[00:22:15] The Mystery of Native Crabapple Reproduction
I want to talk about the mystery that surrounds these native apple trees. And this is quite amazing when we talk about it. The mystery around these trees and how they reproduce.
What's the big mystery? What is the thing that you encountered during your research that you guys thought, what's going on here?
So the native crabapples produce a lot of different types of seed, and I'm gonna have to talk to you for a moment about all the ways they reproduce in order to explain what the mystery is.
as I mentioned before, in diploid plants, they get a copy of each gene from their mother and a copy from their father. And the crabapples get two copies from their mother and two copies from their father if they're reproducing sexually. But there's three processes that go on in crabapples that really create a dazzling array of outcomes.
one is that they hybridize with domestic apples, as we've mentioned. So you get combinations of the two and most commonly those are triploids. the other thing that crabapples do is they often produce eggs and sperm cells that have extra sets of chromosomes. So you get offspring that are, still all crabapple but they have more chromosomes than the parents did, so they have higher ploidies. They could be hexaploid with six sets, or octoploid with eight. and then on top of that, they can reproduce asexually, which is a really interesting process where the flower still has to be pollinated. So there's pollen coming from another flower, which has the male gametes in it.
But when the ovule is fertilized and starts to develop into a seed, none of the male contribution is included in the embryo. So you get an offspring that has only the mother's DNA. And usually, they are basically clones of the mother. They're genetically identical to the mother plant and they're tetraploid, just like the mother.
But occasionally you even get seeds produced that are asexual but only have half the mother's DNA. So they're diploid. So you have tetraploid plant producing diploid seeds, which is very weird. we look at the seeds from these native trees, and what we see are diploid, triploid, tetraploid, pentaploid, hexaploid, octaploid seeds.
And some of the tetraploid seeds are sexually produced, so they're a mix of two trees, and some are asexually produced, so they're just like the mother. So there's all these different things going on. So we see all these seeds of different types, but then when we genetically test all the adult trees, what we see is They're almost all tetraploids that are all genetically identical to each other within the population.
So first of all, we don't know where all these hybrid seeds are going because generally they produce about 25 percent hybrid seeds in the population we've studied the most but we've only found one adult hybrid. And also, although they produce lots of tetraploid seeds sexually, Because the whole population is genetically identical, it looks like possibly only the asexual seeds are eventually leading to adult trees.
So we have these populations which look like great big clones,
But that's incredible, like the idea that, it's funny, it reminds me in an earlier show I had an expert talking about aphids. And how aphids can actually, they don't even need the male. The mother just produces lots and lots of little identical babies.
The fact that these trees are the ones that survive in the wild are mostly Identical clones. Now often when a tree is endangered, it's because there's too much mixing going on. it'll be so watered down that there'll never be a native apple tree. Does this mean that these native apple trees will be with us forever?
They will never be endangered because they just like to produce the exact same thing over and over again. They're always pretty much identical.
I wouldn't reach that conclusion. I think I suppose that's possible. But the odd thing is that within a population, they're all identical.
But then when you go to a different population, what we found so far is all the ones in that population are identical to each other as well. But it's a different genotype than the first population, although weirdly enough, sometimes we'll be like miles and miles away and we'll find another population that has the same genotype as the first population.
So there is variation within the species. Just not within populations. that suggests that it's not that there's one really super duper genetic type and they're all that way. There are multiple types of them out there, but just not within populations.
Okay, so we have an email here from Carol. Carol asks, So the feral apple tree's main benefits are pollination and making cider. But don't add them to an orchard because of possible disease infection. So I'm glad, Carol, you asked this question because we were a little waffling on this subject. Do you think you should put a native apple tree near your other apple trees? Or do you think it's not a good idea?
Let's Give her some answer.
I don't know of any reason to say no to that. I think there's probably value in planting native trees generally. and we don't know specifically of any harm they are going to do to your orchard. we always have to consider the possibility that they might harbor pests or whatever, but on the other hand, maybe the benefits of helping out native bees will help the orchard as well.
Yeah, I would say go ahead.
Okay, you got the okay then, Carol. There's the okay from Paul. Now we have another email from John. Thank you for this, John. John from Toronto. Hi, Susan. Does Paul's organization do apple identification testing for urban apple growers? He'd mentioned a student ID 600 feral apple trees, and I was wondering if they have a testing program you can send in to.
I have one apple scion on a five in one fan apple espalier that I don't know, I don't know what it is, he says. When I bought it, the label was broken off. I'm dying to know what it is. He says the four other apples are Red Mcintosh, Golden Delicious, Gravenstein, and Fuji. it's that pollinator grouping.
Is ID testing done on the scionwood, on the apple, or both? Thank you, John, because that's exactly what we're going to talk about next. his question is, how can he identify a mystery apple that is growing in his backyard?
Okay, so we do have a program for that. if you go to our Ontario Heritage and Feral Apple Project website, which I think is in the notes for this show, the link.
then, there's a page there called test my tree, and it has all the instructions. you have to collect the leaves, preferably in May and June when they're It's still in good shape. You dry them, and you mail them to us, and we will test them for you for a fee of 15 dollars per tree.
15 dollars.
That is so modest. That's such good value. So this, for people listening from the United States, are there other, this is in Canada. You will accept your leaf matter to identify, are there other services in the States where people can do this? Is it the same kind of price?
I don't know anything about price.
I know that there are other groups starting to do this now. there's a I was reading about a group in Seattle that's doing this. There's a group in Wyoming. I think there's something through the USDA now. and I think there was another one, but I'm just blanking on what it was right now.
So it does exist. Yes. It does exist.
And there's one in the UK as well.
since John brought it up, let's talk about you need leaves. On your side, in a simple way, what do you do to figure out? What do you do with these leaves? How will these leaves tell you what cultivar John has growing in his backyard?
Or if I am in my neighborhood have some mystery tree, that's a mix of other things. How on earth are you going to know? So what are the steps when you get that dried, those dried leaves? What do you do with them?
Okay, so the first step is we need to get the DNA out of the leaves. So there's all process for that where we follow a special recipe.
And basically it starts with grinding up the leaves really finely. And then, we go through a series of steps where they sit in different chemicals that break apart the nuclei and we spin them in the centrifuge through special filters and, I'll just leave it vague like that.
And what comes out at the end of this whole process is a tiny bit of liquid in a tube that is essentially it's a buffer with the tree's DNA in it. the next step is we take the sample of DNA and we put it in a mix with mainly two other things. one is called a primer, which is a little bit of DNA sequence, that's manufactured that tells the, the process that's about to occur, what section of the DNA to look at.
that's. Best way I can explain it.
I, you know what, I see it like, like a bit of a magnifying glass. You're saying, okay, guys, ignore all the other information. We're just looking at for this little square of information. So you focus in on the information and then what are you looking for?
and so then what happens is that the process amplifies that little bit of that one section of the tree's DNA to make lots and lots of copies of it, and it attaches a little bit of chemical to it that glows under a special light.
And then that's run through another special machine. Sorry to be vague. I don't even actually remember what the name is of that last machine because it's done in a separate facility in our department. And what comes out at the end is information about what variations. of that particular section of DNA.
that tree has. So there might be 20 different forms that section of DNA could take, and it tells us which specific forms are present in that tree. And we do that for 14 different sections of the DNA, and in combination we get what's called a 14 locus genotype. That says this tree has these variants at the first locus, these at the second locus, these at the third locus, until we get all the way up to 14.
yeah. And so then once you have this kind of code, is there a big, like I can just see an old tome, a big, huge, heavy book that says, Mcintosh has these numbers and this code and Golden Delicious or Wealthy has another code. Is there a big sort of book or database where you look and you look it up and you find out, Oh, this has got a little bit of this and a little bit of that.
yeah, our current database has I believe around 200 cultivars, where we know the 14 locus genotype for every one of those cultivars. And so we can compare the sample we've just tested for someone to all the trees in that database and see if it matches up to any of them.
And if it doesn't match up, whether some of them could in fact be the parent of it. There's also other databases out there. There's one in the UK that we can access. and we're hoping to get access to some in the U. S. as well this year so we can keep expanding the number of trees we can test.
So I'd love to know, what are the stories of who writes you?
is it like, Bob Jones who writes you and he's got a tree, have you ever had interesting apples with, lots of different parentage? Yeah, it's got a bit of Wealthy, it's got a little bit of Golden Banana or whatever? have you ever had a really interesting specimen that was like, wow, this has a lot of parentage to it?
In terms of parentage, all we can really say is, can we identify one of its direct parents or? two of its direct parents, but beyond that we can't say much at this point. We have found some interesting results for people though, if you want me to describe those.
in, addition to just being able to identify cultivars for people, we've done lots of that now, we've had some interesting results with identifying possible parents, and one example from, there's a wonderful group of people up on St. Joseph's Island, near Sault Ste. Marie, who are, have been sending us samples for a local project they're doing there.
And one of their participants sent a number of trees from their old orchard, and it turned out that as far as we could tell, none of them are actually cultivars. they all probably had come up from seeds. They were first generation, seedling trees. but two thirds of them all had one parent in common, which was a rather unusual cultivar called Liveland Raspberry.
And so based on that, the fact that cultivar doesn't usually pop up as a parent in feral trees, but this one area had two thirds of their samples, is pretty strong evidence that what was growing in that orchard before was Liveland Raspberry. And all these seeds are probably the offspring of the original orchard.
So sometimes we get cool results like that.
That's very interesting. Or maybe there was just one Liveland Raspberry tree, but it was very assertive and sent its pollen everywhere and it's very dominating, but I've never even heard of that cultivar. I've certainly never tasted it. oh, that's great.
[00:36:43] Final Thoughts and Listener Reviews
Before we wrap up soon, I just want to have a word from you. So much of your work is around this native apple tree. How important is it to you? Is it really important that everybody keep planting it and respect it and honor it and keep it forever?
Or are you a little non committal about this tree? It's just something you're studying.
I guess when we study it, it's a neutral process. We're just trying to learn about, what it's doing, how it interacts with other species. And we don't make policy about, what that means in terms of should we be planting more of them?
Should we be cutting down feral apples, things like, because they're hurting the native crabs or anything like that. we're just trying to understand the interaction. Personally, I would hate to see them go away. They are an interesting native species and I'd miss them.
That's good. Okay. You'd miss them. That's good.
So thank you to everybody who sent in your questions and your comments and just sent in an email to say hi. We so appreciate you participating and thank you so much to Paul Kron for coming on the show to share this really interesting. topic. I appreciate you coming in also because for so many years I had walked around with this misconception that there are no native apple trees.
And so you know, if there's one big moral I learned, it's that they are out there and we need to respect them. Yeah. Do you agree? Yes. , I heard a yes, I agree there. So I
think we sent you just one more email. Oh, let's see what the last email is before we wrap up the show. I'll answer that.
Okay, last email.
Okay, here we go. Hi, Susan and Paul. Growing up on the north side of Ganoke, Ontario, I was blessed to have four or five apple trees in the neighborhood. Two of the trees were 40 to 50 feet tall and always had the kids in the area climbing, harvesting, socializing, and playing around their root base every fall.
One of these grandmother trees was a crabby in my backyard, darn near a hundred years old. And I'm sure as it took two people to join arms, to reach around its trunk. The other one was a pear shaped green apple, a 50 plus foot beauty. This was at least a hundred years old. Both trees are but a fond memory now.
Oh my gosh, this is from Scott. Wow, Scott, what a beautiful email. And in a previous show, I was talking with an expert about pruning veteran, which is really old fruit trees. And you know what he said? He said it's very important for us to be planting these full size trees today so that tomorrow, in the future we will have big old trees like that.
Right now all the trees we buy are maybe on dwarfing rootstock, semi dwarfing rootstock, but these memories that you have, let's hope that the next generation can have those memories too. Thank you so much, Scott, for emailing us and I'm so glad we managed to squeeze in your email. Thank you for sharing that.
Okay, we're going to wrap up the show today for now. I also wanted to read you one more thing. I really love it, for those of you who listen to the show, if you can go onto your podcaster and rate and review the show, it helps to tell other people who might want to listen that this might be a show worth listening to.
But some of the reviews are very beautiful. And I want to share one with you. It's from Jen in Alberta who shared this review. She says, I enjoy listening to these podcasts, several of them over and over. Well done, Susan. The edible lunch was super creative and fun with the edible perennials episode. The elderberry episode has me planning to start an orchard in the next year or two.
I would love to take your online course one day as well. Thanks for the great info. Best wishes, Jen from Alberta. Thank you so much to Jen for sharing. Thanks to all of you for rating the show if you can, and I look forward to seeing your reviews. And that's it for this month. But we will be back again next month with a great new show.
It's a great topic for next month, so I hope to see everybody back here again.