Orchard People

[00:00:00] Introduction to the Urban Forestry Radio Show
Welcome to the Urban Forestry Radio Show, brought to you by the Community Orchard Network. In this monthly radio show and podcast, I'm going to take you on a journey. We'll learn about fruit trees, permaculture, food forests, and so much more. So if you're a gardener and enjoy growing your own food, if you love trees and especially fruit trees, Or if you're just interested in living a more sustainable life, you've come to the right place.
I'm Susan Poizner, your host for today. So get ready, roll up your sleeves, and let's dig in to today's episode.
Welcome to the Urban Forestry Radio Show with your host, Susan Poizner. Right here on Reality Radio 101. To contact Susan live, email her right now, realityradio101@yahoo.com.
And now, your host, Susan Poizner.
[00:01:33] Exploring Beneficial Insects in the Garden
Hi, and welcome to the show today. When you think about your garden, what's the image that comes to mind? Is it pretty flowers and fruit trees? Or do you see lettuces, squash plants, and climbing beans? Well, that's what I used to see, until I read a book called Attracting Beneficial Bugs to Your Garden, and that made it all look very different, and a little bit scary.
Instead of sunshine and flowers, this book depicts a world of flesh eating predatory insects who rip their victims apart before feasting on them. Sometimes they even eat their prey from the inside out. Weakening them slowly until they die a painful death. And yet, believe it or not, we want these creatures in our gardens.
because they help us control pest populations. They eat the bad bugs, like aphids, slugs, and mealybugs.
[00:02:38] Interview with Jessica Walliser: Attracting Beneficial Bugs
So in the program today, my first interview is with the author of this wonderful book. Jessica Walliser will explain how we can introduce certain plants into our gardens to help protect our fruit trees and encourage them to thrive.
Now sometimes using plants and flowers to lure beneficial insects into our gardens just isn't enough. So in the second half of the program today, I'll chat with Brian Spencer of Applied Bionomics. His company is the fourth largest producer of beneficial insects in the world. He sells those insects to farmers and orchardists around North America to help them battle insect infestations that can devastate their crops.
So when is it time to bring in a battalion of beneficial insects? And if you do bring them into your orchard, do you know that they'll actually stay there? But first, let's talk about attracting beneficial bugs the natural way. I have Jessica Welliser on the line from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Jessica, how are you today?
I'm very well, Susan. Thank you so much for the invitation to join you today. It's a pleasure to have you. I'm really curious, what was your goal in writing this book? my goal was essentially really to, connect the, Happenings of the entomological community to those of the gardening community. some of the research that's taking place, with entomologists around North America is really pertinent to home gardeners and also to commercial farmers and market growers.
But yet, that research wasn't making its way to the home gardeners. And, or if it was, it was only in very, very limited And so what I wanted to do in this book was really create a easy to use, easy to understand bridge between all of these amazing studies that talk about how good beneficial insects are for the landscape, bring all of that to the home gardener.
teach them how to use those studies to benefit themselves and how to really build a, an ecosystem in the garden that fosters beneficial insects and then in turn helps us control the pests. Well, it's funny because you talk about beneficial insects and before I read your book, I thought of pollinators.
Okay, beneficial insects are our happy little pollinators that come and help us pollinate our fruit trees and zucchini plants, whatever. but what else do beneficial insects do? Right.
[00:05:20] Understanding Beneficial Insects: Predators and Parasitoids
Well, we can basically talk about three different groups of beneficial insects. The first would be those pollinators, which would be things like our native bees, some beetle species, flies, butterflies, you know, even hummingbirds fit into that category.
but then the other two. groups, which would be the predators and the parasitoids. What their job is to do is, they're good bugs because they help us control some of the pests that commonly feed in our garden. So, you know, they are, just as important as pollinators in my mind because they help us get a very, very important balance, which in turn helps us to reduce pesticide usage, in our gardens.
And you said there were three groups. What's the third group? The parasitoids. Oh, I see. Yeah, so predators are are, excuse me, predators are insects that capture and consume another insect directly. So if you think about a spider or a praying mantis or even a ladybug, they capture that aphid or that stink bug or another insect and they Eat it directly.
The parasitoids, how they work is they use that pest insect to house and feed their developing young. So this might be a parasitic wasp or a cactus fly, where the female will come along and she'll insert an egg into the back of a tent caterpillar. And that egg will hatch and the larva will tunnel into the tent caterpillar and consume it from the inside out, eventually leading to death.
So a parasitoid is a lot like a parasite. Except a parasite leaves its host alive, and a parasitoid brings eventual death to the host. So, those are, you know, those are the two main groups of beneficial insects that are not the pollinators. It's so funny because I know, Jessica, you started like I did.
You're a gardener, you weren't necessarily an expert in this. Were you like me when you started to realize how brutal this part of our garden's Is? I mean, it's, it's like a zombie, a mini zombie apocalypse there, you know, all these bugs sort of eating other bugs from the inside. Yeah, but I mean, you know, it's just a when you come to think about and you can compare it to something that is a little more on our scale, which would be, you know, the lions and the gazelles or the bobcats and the rabbits, you know, or even a bass and a minnow, right?
We have this. sort of the predator and it's called the predator and prey cycle. And it exists in every ecosystem on this planet. So it would only make sense that it also exists in the insect world as well. But of course that's on a much smaller scale than we are. And so. We tend to not even notice that it's happening, but right outside our back doors every day, all day long.
It's a bug eat bug world. You know, and you might think of it as gory and, and, you know, your introduction. I had a big smile on my face as you were giving your introduction because it's true. That's exactly what it is. I mean, it's not, it's not necessarily a nice thing to witness, but, it's just part of the ecosystem of the garden.
Amazing.
[00:08:30] The Role of Beneficial Insects in Pest Control
Now, it's interesting because for most of us gardeners, especially those of us who are planting perennial crops and fruit trees, our concern is the bad bugs. So we are annoyed to see that insects are eating the leaves of our trees, or are laying their eggs under the skin of the fruit growing in the trees and stuff like that.
Why, like, we don't necessarily think of beneficial insects. What is, what, what's the relationship between good bugs and bad bugs? Well, it's interesting that because so far on this planet, we have managed to identify about 1 million species of insects. But scientists estimate that there's between 2 and 20 million different Insect species on the planet.
So we've barely managed to identify the tip of the iceberg, but what we do know about that 1 million or so species that we have managed to identify is that actually less than 1 percent of them are considered to be agricultural pests. So we've got an incredibly small percentage of the insects that are out in your backyard that actually bring harm to your garden, but those tend to be the ones that we focus on.
We spend money, we spend time, we spend energy, and we really focus on controlling those bad insects. If we could just sort of flip our mindset around and begin to put that much time and energy and not even money, but you could put money, and invest that instead into nurturing and encouraging the beneficial insects, what we would see once we start to focus on them is we do start to see a natural reduction in pest numbers because we've gotten that Balance back into the garden that we lose every time we go out and we try to fight the bad gut.
So it's a matter of switching your mindset. It's not an easy one. But that's another purpose of this book is to really educate people what studies are out there, what they have shown, and how you can effectively use this techniques in your own landscape. So if I were to buy into this whole concept and read the studies and say, okay, I'm convinced, would I no longer use sprays, whether they're organic sprays like, lime sulfur and dormant oil or non organic sprays that many conventional farmers and orchardists use. Would we just walk away from that part of, you know, pest control in our gardens and orchards? Yeah, I get that question a lot. And here's the thing, there are natural and predator and prey cycles, which we talked about, right?
All these going on in the insect world, but the biggest trouble that we've gotten ourselves into is the fact that many of the pests that we have to deal with in our yards and gardens and orchards are not native. To the place in which we live. So, for example, the oriental fruit moth, which is really wreaking havoc for a lot of farmers and growers now, that's an introduced species.
And when we brought it over here, accidentally, what happened was we didn't bring the predators and parasitoids that have evolved to help keep a natural control, we didn't bring those along, too. So this insect came here with no natural controls in place, no system that checks and balances. Of course, the population explodes because nobody's there to keep it in check.
And those are the instances where we really find ourselves having to turn to the products to help control it. Same too with the brown marmorated stink bug. I know here in the east, our orchardists in Pennsylvania are having a huge amount of trouble with this introduced species. The other thing is, you know, when you're growing anything in a monoculture, when you have rows and rows of the same fruit tree, that is essentially a big giant target.
And so we have to work a little harder to get that balance in place, when we have a big monoculture like that. So no. Doing this system is not going to, you know, completely eliminate the need for your organic pest controls that you use. But however, it is intended to greatly reduce that and to make you think a little bit harder about the choices that you make.
It's funny because you talk about monocultures, and I always say that like a monoculture of, let's say, all apple trees is like an all you can eat buffet for bad bugs, you know? They can have as much as they want. Yeah, it really is. And there's a great concept. One of the things that I got to do in this book, which was really literally my favorite part of writing this book was that I got to interview entomologists from all across North America and talk to them about some of the projects that they're working on.
And there's an entomologist with the National Sustainable Agricultural Informational Service named Rex Dufour. And I had a great interview with him in the book about the concept of farmscaping, which is basically taking that in big orchard full of apples that for commercial production, that's what you have to have.
And instead of just having big lines of apples in a row, we start introducing other elements to it. Whether it's something like a hedgerow, or ground covers, or windbreaks, or flowering, rows of flowering, plants and annuals in between. And we create more of a landscape instead of a monoculture. And when we increase that complexity of the orchard, what we find is a natural reduction in pests and a natural increase in predation. There's a really interesting study that the rates of parasitism in orchards for things like tent caterpillars and codling moth caterpillars. in orchards that have flowering plants and weeds allowed to have a substantial portion in that orchard.
There's an 18 times 18th rate increase in the parasitism. So when we get different elements of complexity in the orchard and step away from that monoculture, we have a greater chance of naturally reducing those pest numbers. So here you wrote this beautiful book, and it's for gardeners. And so, is what you're saying that the plants that we choose can help to bring this balance into place that just by planting the right things we can attract these beneficial insects. Is that your philosophy?
Absolutely. Yeah, we can attract them. And even more importantly, if we can support them so we can create this habitat for them where they're getting what they need as far as food resources, they're also getting habitat, you know, egg laying site, places to hunker down for the winter when they have all that they need, then their populations naturally increase and we get better and better predation, and, and predatory results.
And so it's really a cool system and there's tons of research to back it up. Okay. which I wanted to have in this book because I think that's so important. You just can't say it works. You actually have to have the proof to back it up. That's amazing. In a minute, we're going to take a break for our sponsors in a minute, but we are going to explore after the break, we're going to talk about the different plants that you would encourage orchardists.
to bring into, their gardens or whoever's growing fruit trees. What kind of plants should we be planting? And what kind of, insects do we want to attract to our fruit trees? So we are going to take a break now. Are you okay hanging on the line for a minute? I sure am. Great. Well, you're listening to the Urban Forestry Radio Show on Reality Radio 101.
I'm Susan Poizner and we'll be back after this short break.
Are you new to growing fruit trees, or perhaps a seasoned expert? Either way, come and join the Community Orchard Network. We are a group of community and home orchardists. From across North America who gather through monthly webinars, radio broadcasts like this one and podcasts, we want to share our experience, deepen our knowledge, and widen the movement.
Join the conversation. Visit www.orchardpeople.com/network to find out more. This message was brought to you by the Baltimore Orchard Project.
Hey Sally, your garden is looking great today. Thanks Gary. Your lawn is looking a little bit dry. Ah, that's okay. It's all going to change. Soon I'm going to plant a fruit tree in my yard. I'm thinking an apple tree or maybe peach. That sounds great, but do you know what you're doing? Well, fruit trees are easy.
You just plant them, water them, and wait for the harvest, right? Actually, that's not quite the case. What? Organic orchardists spend a lot of time protecting their fruit trees from pest and disease problems. Really? And in order to thrive, fruit trees need to be pruned every year. Hmm, I didn't know that.
I'll tell you what, before you buy your tree, why don't you go to OrchardPeople. com? You'll learn lots about growing fruit from the blog, and there's a fantastic monthly newsletter with seasonal tips and reminders. Maybe I should check that out. Yeah, then if you really want to move ahead You can sign up for OrchardPeople.
com's beginner fruit tree care course. So maybe I should hold off on buying my tree today. You got it. The more, you know, the better your tree will grow. Sign up for a free membership to OrchardPeople. com today.
[00:18:23] Introduction to Beneficial Insects
Welcome
back to the Urban Forestry Radio Show with your host, Susan Poizner. Right here on Reality Radio 1 0 1 to contact Susan Live. Email her Reality radio101@yahoo.com.
Hey, now right back to your host, Susan Poner. This is the Urban Forestry Radio Show brought to you by the Community Orchard Network. I'm Susan Poizner, and today I'm chatting with Jessica Walliser, the author of Attracting Beneficial Bugs to Your Garden. We're talking about how these insects can help us in our battle with insect pests.
So Jessica, in the first part of this interview, you explained the role that beneficial insects play in protecting our fruit trees and other plants from insect pests. So, if we want to attract these beneficial insects into our garden, what do we need to do?
[00:19:42] Practical Steps to Attract Beneficial Insects
Well, essentially, I have sort of a six step guide, and six steps, six things that you can do in your orchard, in your garden, no matter how large or small it is, that will help you get that good bug, bad bug balance back to the landscape.
I, ideally, This should be about three to five percent of the overall garden space should be covered with some one of these Six different items that I'm going to give you so it's not that you have to have your you know entire garden or orchard Dedicated to this it's just three to five percent of the space and if you don't mind I can walk up through these six things that I suggest that people do.
Absolutely The first is to plant sunflowers, which who doesn't love sunflowers, right? and you and I talked about this a little bit on the phone earlier this week, Susan, and how important sunflowers are, to many of the beneficial insects that help us control pests in the garden. They're, they're great at producing the nectar and pollen that a lot of beneficial insects need before they can reproduce.
So, for example, the ladybugs and the lacewings, parasitic wasps. They're all attracted to the pollen and nectar of sunflowers, but not only do they produce nectar in the flowers, they actually produce nectar out of what are called extra floral nectaries, which are these glands that are on the undersides of the leaves of almost all sunflowers.
And that extra floral nectar Or it's produced in hopes of attracting, and supporting beneficial insects that help control pests in the garden. I go into it a little bit more in the book, start producing this one there as little as six inches high. so that's what makes those sunflowers so important.
in the orchard, whether it's between rows around individual trees, a patch of them somewhere in the back of your property, anywhere as close to the trees as you can get them is a really good thing. Thanks so much for that. A number one. I must say, I find this amazing because in all the years I've been reading about fruit trees, this is the first I've heard of sunflowers, playing that role.
So I appreciate that. So what are the other, the other items? Yeah, the other is to build a hedgerow if you can, and there's a lot of, you know, we sort of have taken out all the hedgerows, and it's a sort of a, what we think of English, right? The English have the hedgerows in their gardens, but the importance of hedgerows is really being, hammered home by a lot of research studies right now taking place in California.
if they create these sort of little microclimates by breaking the wind, and filtering the air, Right. And, decreasing the wind speed. And when we put hedgerows in like that, not only are we doing all those things, but we're also creating habitat, year round habitat for the good insects and pollinators that live in our garden.
So this could be a row of, flowering shrubs, like, nine bark, meadow sweet, hardhacks, spireas, any kind of native flowering shrubs that are planted in a nice steady row around and through the orchard is going to have a lot, a lot of benefits, for the beneficial insects that live there. So they don't actually, they don't actually even have to be full sized trees.
They can be shrubs. Correct. Hedgerows, the hedgerows intended to attract beneficial insects are best to have a blend of shrub, Native grasses and native perennials, flowering perennials, things like black eyed susans, coneflowers, anything in the carrot family would be a good choice for these hedgerows.
And so they're basically just habitat and creation of a microclimate which helps to shelter those beneficial insects. The third thing would be to create what's called a beetle bank or a beetle bump, and this is a research that's taking place at, Oregon State right now. And it's really, really cool.
The people there working on it are building habitat for, a group of beetles called the ground beetles. And they do Just what their name says, they dwell on the ground and they scurry around at night and they go out and they feed on lots of different pest insects. They're incredibly good for getting rid of slugs and snails.
And so a beetle bank or bump is just basically a raised berm, that's raised up above the ground level by 12 to 18 inches. And then it's covered with native bunch grasses. So you would just want to talk to your extension service about, or a native plant nursery nearby, about what kind of Grasses are native to your region, and those grasses are left to grow all season long, and that's good shelter for these ground beetles that go out and do things like they eat the larva or the pupa of the coddling moth, oriental fruit moth, apple maggot, plum curculio, all of these typical orchard pests that overwinter in the larval stage in the ground, they're all preyed upon by ground beetles.
so having a beetle bank or a bump somewhere on your property is really good for promoting them.
And the third thing would be to put up bat boxes. Hang on, I'm on number four. I'm on number four. We've got sunflowers, hedgerows, beetle bump, and then number four is Bat boxes, bat boxes, bat boxes. It's not a matter of planting a plant, but those bat boxes are really good to help control the codling moths and lots of other, pests that are common to the garden that spend their nighttime flying, that they're nocturnal flyers.
They come from moths. So bat boxes are a really good one. and then number five would be creating insectary plantings. This is a bed, a border that goes around the orchard or around your vegetable garden where you are including a great diversity of flowering annuals and perennials that are known to encourage and support growth.
beneficial insects like those ladybugs and the parasitic wasps, lacewings, big eyed bugs, my new pirate bugs, and all of the insects that I talk about in the book. the second half of the book is actually dedicated, or second part of the book is dedicated to specific plants. that are really good at supporting beneficial insects.
And those are the ones that you should include in those insectary plantings that should occur all in and around your garden. So, for instance, if we know that aphids are a problem in our particular, in our particular environment, then we'd look for which insects would go for the aphids. Exactly. Yeah.
Exactly. And in the back of the book, I actually have a really useful chart, that shows a picture and there's lots of pictures throughout the book, but this is a useful chart where it's a specific picture of the predatory or parasitoidal insect. Then it talks about what tests they help control in the garden.
And then it talks about what types of plants to plant to attract and support them. So it's a really, sort of, really nice handy little reference for you to use. Okay, so number six, yes. The sixth thing is hanging up birdhouses, and this is an incredibly important one to getting balance back into the garden to encourage our insectivorous bird species in specific.
Woodpeckers, are great at eating codling moth cocoons off the sides of apple trees. and nuthatches are really good for that. But then things like the chickadees and, wrens, who go out onto our plants and they glean, you know, the cabbage moths off of the cabbage. caterpillars off of the apple trees.
hanging up as many birdhouses as you can. Hmm, that's amazing. I'm a big fan of birdhouses myself. First of all they're beautiful and they bring such a layer of wildlife to the orchard. my one concern, and there's not much we can do about it, is they eat the bad bugs but they eat the good bugs too.
They do, they do. But again, it's part of that natural balance, that natural, they're part of a different cycle of predator and prey. And as long as it is a native bird that you're attracting, they fit into that cycle, and they really do help us quite a bit in the garden.
[00:28:04] Creating a Balanced Ecosystem in Your Garden
So Jessica, in your garden, do you have fruit trees or berry bushes, and have you seen a difference with this kind of approach?
I do. I have all of these things. I have We've got apple trees and peach and pear and plum and raspberries and blueberries and strawberries. We, we have about two acres, just outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And I have, what's great is that I've really grown to appreciate spending time in the garden and looking.
For this predation, and parasitism taking place in my own garden and almost all of the pictures in the book that are of insects and of this great stuff happening in the garden were taken right on my little suburban lot. So, you know, it's not like you have to have a huge amount of real estate to make this happen and you just have to learn to pay attention to it and I've definitely seen, in fact, I don't know if you're, you're.
familiar with the Lost Ladybug Project, but if you go onto Lost Ladybug Project and search my name, you can see pictures of some of the different ladybug species that I found just right here on my own property because of using these practices. Wow, incredible. I must say, I was really impressed with the pictures in your book.
I'm like, wow, what camera does she have? These things are small. They are. I do. I just use a Canon Rebel. And I use a set of extension tubes between the camera's body and the lens, and that allows me to get really, really close to my subjects and get those cool up close shots. Wow, that's amazing. Well, I want to thank you so much.
If listeners want to know more, where can they find your book, or how can they find out more? Sure. they can go to my website, which is just jessica walliser.com. It's jessica W-A-L-L-I-F-E r.com. Or they can just google my name, Jessica Walliser. And the book is available. You know, everywhere book is sold.
Books are sold. Amazon independent bookstores, Barnes and Noble. you can get it just about anywhere. Well, thank you so much, Jessica, for coming on the show. I hope you will come back, come back again one day. We've got, so much more we could talk about. I would love to join you again. Thank you so much for the invitation.
Okay, thanks so much, and goodbye for now. Bye bye. Okay, wonderful.
[00:30:25] Sponsor Messages and Upcoming Topics
Well, we're coming up to a message from our sponsors, and then after that, Jessica explained how we can lure beneficial insects into our gardens by planting specific plants. But when is that not enough? After the break, I'll chat with Bionomics.
He sells beneficial insects to farmers, and we'll learn more about that. You're listening to Reality Radio 101. This is the Urban Forestry Radio Show brought to you by the Community Orchard Network. I'm Susan Poizner, and I'll be back after the break.
Are you new to growing fruit trees? or perhaps a seasoned expert? Either way, come and join the Community Orchard Network. We are a group of community and home orchardists from across North America who gather through monthly webinars, radio broadcasts like this one, and podcasts. We want to share our experience, deepen our knowledge, and widen the movement.
Join the conversation. www. orchardpeople. com forward slash network to find out more. This message was brought to you by the Baltimore Orchard Project.
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urban forestry radio show with your host, Susan Poizner right here on reality radio 101. To contact Susan Live, please email her right now. Reality radio101@yahoo.com.
Hey, now back to your host, Susan Poiser to hi. I'm Susan Poizner and you're listening to the Urban Forestry Radio Show, brought to you by the Community Orchard Network. On this program we learn about fruit trees, food forests, permaculture, and lots more. So thanks for tuning in. In the first part of the show.
We talked about how beneficial insects can help us in our battle against insect pests in our gardens. If you bring the good bugs in, then they can help you in so many ways. Some of them will pollinate our plants, and other beneficial insects will keep the bad bugs at bay by eating them. So, we also learned that beneficial insects take no hostages.
Some of them will rip the bad bugs apart and feast on their remains. They might even eat their victims from the inside out, parasitizing them. The world of insects can make a zombie apocalypse look like a walk in the park.
[00:34:40] Interview with Brian Spencer: Beneficial Insects Industry
Well, my next guest today actually breeds beneficial insects and sells them to farmers and orchardists far and wide.
Brian Spencer is from Applied Bionomics, which is the fourth largest producer of beneficial insects in the world. And Brian is on the line to chat with me today. He's in Victoria, BC. Hi Brian, how are you today? Fine, thank you very much. Wonderful. You must tell me, how is it that you got into this industry of breeding beneficial insects?
Well, the, the industry itself, is, is actually a very ancient industry, but, pretty well died out, around World War II when DDT was developed. So, basically, worldwide, all the insectaries disappeared, and then the age of, chemicals, showed up, and, You know, it goes back, in shorter history, there's actually a couple of insectaries in North America that are, that are well over a hundred years old, and they were basically designed, to work with the citrus industry and deal with the pests that were involved with the citrus plants, like Associates Insectary in California.
So you're saying that all these years ago, people were shipping beneficial insects around the world to Oh yes. Well, you know, shipping around the world, probably not. It tended to be regional because in the course of a hundred years ago, we were basically still in the steam age, so But I remember talking to, a grower in Richmond, British Columbia who, who was basically growing cash crops like, cabbage and, and, and, broccoli.
And he remembers going to the train station in New Westminster with his grandfather to wait for the train to get the parasitic insects that were gonna control his, moths from, from Ontario. So Wow. So it's certainly, it's certainly not new technology. Most of the systems that we Run were actually developed in the 1920s and the 1930s.
Hmm. Amazing. And so you yourself, you know, how did you get involved?
[00:36:47] Brian Spencer's Journey: From Winemaking to Insect Breeding
Is this something you've always been doing? No, I, my degree was in microbiology and I ended up, becoming a winemaker. I was a fermentation scientist and a winemaker with, at that time it was Andres Wines in Canada. Now it's, Peller Estates.
And, one of the big concerns I had was, was working with the, the grape growers. of course, as a fermentation scientist, you're mostly concerned about use of fungicides because you don't want, Any fungicides getting into the wine and stopping the fermentation. But the other concern always is the use of pesticides.
And so when I was, I was just basically reading an article about applied bionomics while I was waiting for my dentist. And I thought, you know, this is exactly what, what I need to do. I need to spend more time with the, with looking at this side of the industry and seeing if we can help. Wow. So you moved from winemaking to breeding insects.
[00:37:43] Challenges and Successes in Breeding Beneficial Insects
How many different types of insects do you folks breed over there? Well, at any given time, we're doing about 13 different species. It's, you know, we're always bringing on new ones, and then we try and evaluate these, you know, where they fit. you know, they need to be able to function on the plants that we're targeting.
And, so I'd say about in the history, there's probably about half of the, We end up throwing away about half of the production. We end up throwing away about half of the new species because they either weren't accepted by the growers, they were too expensive to produce, or they just didn't establish well enough.
Who are the growers that are buying from you? Well, historically, my segment of the industry was always based on, the hothouse industry, the greenhouse, like the cucumbers and the tomatoes, and then later the peppers. And we decided to diversify because we just, we felt that that market was very competitive.
it was mostly based in Europe and it was mostly European based growers that were moving. out into North America as well. And we were also looking at the performance factors of our insects. And what we found was by removing the storage of these products, we were able to make them much more efficacious and with much better searching behavior.
So our corporate focus became more ornamentals and outdoor crops like orchards and field crops.
[00:39:15] Strategies for Using Beneficial Insects in Orchards
baffles me because you think, okay, I am going to buy a whole bunch of some sort of beneficial insect for my orchard. I'll let them loose and they'll fly away and go somewhere else. Is that not what happens?
It depends on what you buy. If you're buying, you know, for example, the wild collected ladybugs from California. Yeah. Basically when you release them, they will, if they're, if they're healthy enough, they'll fly away. that's because they were harvested, during dormancy, and, they, they're not hungry when they wake up, and their, their ovaries aren't developed, they're not looking at reproduction, they're basically, they think they're still in the foothills of the Sierra Nevadas, and they They want to get back to the Central Valley of California, so they basically take off and start flying.
And, so yes, definitely there's a dispersal factor when you're dealing with beetles as a generality. Beetles tend to have a grazing function. They graze, they never eradicate, and they just basically keep flying away. there are other ones that establish, there are other ones that are basically focused on the site as long as there's some prey there.
So we have a midge called a fiddle leaf use that's very effective in orchards for aphid control and we've been doing trials even with the, hemlock woolly adelta. Sorry, what is this midge called? It's called aphid. It's like aphid and then oletes. It's a native midge. It's found from northern Sweden all the way down into, into Mexico.
So it's a very, very broad ranging northern hemisphere species that we have. I'm not actually. sure, it's in the southern hemisphere, but for sure it's in the northern hemisphere. And it'll eat aphids. So if we have a problem It'll eat all, what's nice is it'll eat all aphids. It'll eat all species of aphids.
And it also eats the related type of pests like, any of the sucking insects like the white flies and, even some of the mealybugs. It's, in and over winters, so it establishes and stays. We find that when we put them into orchards, there's typically about a five year, grace period before they need to be re inoculated again.
So what's the process? Here you have this insect that you're bringing in, which I won't even, by the way, try to pronounce. People can look on your website to find out more information about the name. For sure, yeah. But, so I bring it into my orchard. Let's say I have a bunch of trees that have aphids in it.
What's the process? What is it all going to look like? Well, in an orchard, the strategy is to basically, use the The trees are infested as an inoculating as a nursery and so what we would do is we would Release these midges and they're basically the adults look like a mosquito. They're very actually very beautiful delicate flying insect But they're extremely good at finding aphids by smell.
in a greenhouse, we do it a little bit differently. In a greenhouse, we release weekly as a preventative. And if there's a single aphid in the far corner of the greenhouse, they will actually find it and lay their egg right on top of the, on top of the aphid. But in an orchard, what we do is, you know, it's just going to be too expensive to do a full treatment of, let's say we're doing a hundred acres.
what we would rather do is pick a, a few key trees. If there's a prevailing wind, for example, if we're dealing down in Oxnard, California, and there's always the onshore westerly coming in, we would tend to look for trees on the western side of the property and inoculate those. So that we know that if there's a big wind storm, the wind will tend to blow them down into the, into the orchard rather than away from the orchard.
So they land on the tree and they start munching at the aphids and having lunch? Yeah, all the adults do is feed on the honeydew. So they basically emerge, fly up into the tree, lick the honeydew up as their source of nutrients and lay, lay their eggs. the eggs are, it is a fly, so the eggs are actually little tiny maggots.
They have a, a feeding tube, and basically they're a very miserable pest. They, they go out there and they bite every leg of every aphid they encounter. They inject a toxin that kills the aphid. And it also, it does So they, if they're hungry, they'll use the leg as a straw and basically suck the aphid dry.
If they're not hungry, they just keep biting all the aphid's legs. So they end up killing about 200 aphids per day. Wow. For each one of them. And they'll do that for about 10 days, until they've fed enough to be able to pupate, and then they fall from the tree into the soil. basically, pupate for anywhere from seven to ten days in the summertime and then reemerge and start the cycle all over again.
Amazing. That is amazing. Sounds quite brutal though. Oh, it's terrible. Yeah, yeah, it's, you guys were leading to it in the first half of the, of the session. It's, you know, it's, it's, well, we're always either being eaten or eating, so it's, that's, that's the way life goes. That's the way life goes.
[00:44:19] Conservation and Entomology in Agriculture
It's interesting because in the first half of the show, Jessica was talking about creating a habitat, planting plants in orchards and other environments so that they would, that these insects would have, A home. I mean, do you feel like her approach and your approach work together in a way? Oh, for sure.
For sure. And I think actually, what I described her approach is, is conservational, entomology, and that's, I would say, that's the cornerstone of our future agricultural, systems. we have to get back to that when, when the British researchers were looking at the searching range of the aphidius wasp, which is an aphid parasitoid.
They actually found that the average searching range turned out to be almost exactly half the distance between the old hedgerows in England. And I don't think that's a mistake. I think that's where hedgerow system. So I think that the hedgerows are absolutely essential. you're seeing that even in large scale, hydroponic, greenhouses, you're seeing introductions of sweet bell pepper, on the pepper plants, which are high producers of, nectar that are attractive and help maintain the, Help maintain the predators and help draw them in.
And when I'm, when I'm consulting even in large acreages and greenhouses, I, I walk around the perimeter and say, look, you need to start planting things like, wild carrot, stuff like that to attract the predators in. It's, it's important to have a, have a good balance. Now, you, you said you have about 13 different types of insects, so I guess each one, are there some favourites you can talk to us about, especially ones that would be good with, veg, you know, vegetables and fruits?
Yeah, we have, we have one product that's, from a commercial point of view has been a disaster. It's called, Amblycius thalassus. It's a predatory mite. And it was actually, found at a, at a, At an abused, apple orchard in Goderich, Ontario. And Ag Canada developed it. And the reason they developed it was because the abuse was a chemical abuse.
And this was quite a resistant, mite. So their feeling was that we could use it as a, as a gateway drug, let's say, for, going into growers that were, that were having a hard time kicking the chemical habit, but we could come in with a predatory mite that would actually, survive their chemical sprays.
And, it turns out that this mite is actually quite global, and it's very resistant all around the world. But it's, it's an amazing mite. Once we get it established in a In a plant, for the life of the plant, it's basically staying there, giving it protection for spider mites. And so why was it not a success?
Well, it's not a success because it was just one application. if we put it in, we have customers like in, in Oregon, that are growing Arborvitae, and we introduce them at the propagation stage, right in the, right in the greenhouse, when they're first just doing the cuttings. And for the life of that plant, they don't need to reapply miticides but they also don't need to reapply beneficial insects.
So basically, you get one time buyers. They buy it once and they don't have to buy anymore. That's why it's not a commercial success. It's actually too successful. Well, exactly, exactly. So our industry is not enthralled with this mite. This mite tends to reduce sales by quite a bit, but it's, it's an extremely valuable mite.
And, certainly when we're dealing with, large scale outdoor agriculture, it's, it's going to be a thing that's going to, it's going to make the breakthrough for it. There, there's one thing that I have had so many complaints from people about Japanese beetles. In, in fruit trees. And, I don't know, is there some sort of insects that will get rid of these?
Because, I'll tell you something, you hang up a trap and you just get more and more of them. Yeah, there's a debate on that. You know, I'm a fan of attracting things. but yeah, I'd say the Japanese beetle trap is probably too successful. the big problem that we have in the world right now is that well, scientists are getting much sharper and better and regulators, regulators are getting very tight on allowing, different insects to come in and different things like that, to show up.
there's also free trade. And so, so the side of the industry we deal with. The USDA and Agriculture Canada and CFIA are doing a fine job of, of looking at, a new species that could be coming in and looking at the things that they would allow us to bring in order to combat it. And, but, you know, in the same token, there's, you know, containers of fresh fruits and vegetables coming in from offshore bringing in.
lots of new paths. And so, you know, we're seeing this with the Japanese beetle, we, the marmorated stink bug, which was mentioned before, the spotted ringed drosophila. And when you look at it historically, if the first response has always been, well, we need to eradicate these things. We have to use chemicals and I'm not aware of any successful chemical eradication program.
It's, in the end, there's either a, a beneficial insect approach that works, or else, the native, predators and parasitoids finally, discover this, this exotic new food for them, and they, and they decide that it's okay to eat. So what are you suggesting, that we, we don't even try and spray them?
Well, I think, you know, the history is we've never been successful, and the problem is when you start using these serious, chemicals to, to try and combat these new invasions of, pests. First of all, the pests are probably resistant to the chemicals anyway, that's why they were a pest on the planet.
product that came in from, from wherever. And the second side of it is that, when you start using a chemical program, you're also chasing away. It's, it's, it's the opposite of conservation biology. You're, you're, you're expelling all the native beetles, all the native predators that are, that are possibly going to be able to adapt and start working on it.
I see. So it's a lose, lose situation. It's lose, lose, and you don't lose your Japanese beetles. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. The problem is you've got growers who are going to lose their crop that year. So, so from a political point of view, you have to do something. And chemicals are by far the simplest.
[00:51:01] Practical Advice for Home Orchardists
Okay, well, if, for instance, let's say I'm a person who has a small orchard or a community grower, is there any way that we could reach out and, and, you know, do some research and, and order some beneficial insects from you or from somebody else? How would that work? Well, on our website, we actually have some crop recommendations, and one of them is, landscape.
And so you could start by reading that. There's basically, for most, small scale operations, we have three, products that are, that are native, that establish that over winter, and you don't have to keep reapplying them, and they have a huge impact. Very similar to, to what Jessica was talking about on the first part.
And so there's the aphidolides, which is the aphid predatory midge. the phyllacis, which is a native predatory mite that establishes in overwinters. And then we also have a soil mite called, and this is even a worse name, it's called Stradiolalaps simitis. That's a mouthful. Well, it used to be called Hypolaspis miles.
So, and it says it's a native soil mite. And it controls a lot of the things in the soil, pathogenic nematodes, overwintering spider mites, pupating thrips, but it's sort of a general policeman in the soil and it establishes really nicely as well. And it controls the black fine root weevils and the root weevils also.
So, between those three products, you've got some really powerful. Tools to help prevent a lot of the pests. And then of course, the other thing are, as you said, the bird houses, birds and bats are incredibly powerful. You know, one of our problems in our industry is that it's mostly filled with entomologists because we do entomological things, but, but predators are, are not just insects.
They can also be birds. They can also be animals. So, we have to, we have to open our eyes a bit and realize that the birds can be a very powerful tool in an orchard as well. It's part of the bigger picture. So look at the bigger picture. So is it expensive to to bring in beneficial insects? Not, not really.
With the introduction of the aphidolites, especially if it's going to last you for five years, I mean, you're probably looking at, you know, we have some very large scale orchards in the United States that we work with, and, and they can spend upwards of two, three thousand dollars, but, Reality is that most of 10 acre orchards, you can usually spend in the neighborhood of 100 or 200 for, for the product to release it, and that should give you about 5 years of, of control.
So 100 to 200, in a small orchard. And what if I'm a home orchardist and I've got a few fruit trees and tons of aphids? Yeah, well, then you don't have to spend that much at all. I mean, that boils down to how small do we package the product. So we have, we have a small, our fiddle eedies is available in a tray of 250, which is ideal for somebody's back, backyard garden.
and the strategy there would be to You know, basically, wait until you've got some aphid infestation. Then the best strategy is actually to go with a good, strong garden hose with water, and just wash the tree off. And that does two things. The, The actual water pressure will actually break off a lot of the feeding beaks of the aphids, so they can't feed anymore.
But it also gets rid of a lot of the honeydew that's been And, it's been sort of, building up on the tree. And so when you release the predators, they find it very easy to target the, the new hotspots that are active. And so it just enhances their ability to go in there, but you can release them at any time they they'll fly up.
They'll lay their eggs, and, you know, from that one spot, they will, in two weeks time, they'll disperse. So, in a small orchard, if you're putting a thousand in underneath a tree that's terribly infested, you'll end up, in two weeks time, getting 20, 000 generated from that site, and they'll spread out throughout the orchard.
So, 250, roughly how much would that cost? Well, at the retail level, you're probably going to be paying less than, 20 for that. Well, that sounds very reasonable, definitely. Yeah, yeah. So, I guess That, especially if it lasts for five years. Exactly. I understand that you wouldn't sell directly to home orchardists.
So, are there options for people who are not, big commercial orchardists? Yeah, the, well, the, we are Companies, I mean, we're basically a very small group of people here and focusing on, on producing the product. we have distributors in Canada. we have, sort of three strategically located distributors, probably for the, small garden.
We've got the, we out West, we have West grow biologicals in Ontario. We have natural insect control. And in Quebec, we have Anetis Bioproduction. So if you go to our website, you can actually see our distributors, and you can pick out the best one, or the closest one to you. Well, thank you so much, Brian, for coming to chat with me today.
It was so interesting. And I'm sure that the listeners will definitely go to your website, find out more. Sadly, we have to wrap up. I don't know where this hour has gone. It's just gone by, but thanks again for coming on the show. No problem. Well, thanks for listening, everybody. There are more good stories to come in the next episode of the Urban Forestry Radio Show on Reality Radio 101, so be sure to tune in again.
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