Orchard People

[00:00:00] Introduction and Welcome
The following program does not necessarily represent the views and opinions of Reality Radio 101, its advertisers and sponsors, or its listening audience. Listener discretion is advised.
Welcome to the Urban Forestry Radio Show here on Reality Radio 101. In this radio show and podcast, we learn about fruit trees, permaculture, aboriculture, and so much more. So if you love trees, and especially fruit trees, or if you're interested in living a more sustainable life, then this is the place for you.
I'm your host, Susan Poizner of the fruit tree care training website, OrchardPeople. com. Thanks for tuning in. And enjoy the show. Welcome
to the Urban Forestry Radio Show with your host, Susan Poizner. To contact Susan live right now, send her an email instudio101@gmail. com.
And now your host of the Urban Forestry Radio Show, Susan Poizner. Hi everyone.
[00:01:36] Genetic Diversity in Plants
So I have a bit of a strange question for you today. I'm just wondering, are you more like your mother? Or do you look and behave more like your father? Or are you a totally different person from both of your birth parents? Now, I may not have met each of you in person, but one thing I know for sure about every single listener today, and that's that none of you are clones of either of your parents.
So you'll have some genes from your mom and some genes from your dad. And you'll be a genetically unique individual. Now, plants are similar to humans in this way. let's say you eat a Granny Smith apple, and you save the seeds. If you plant those seeds, will the new trees produce Granny Smith apples?
The answer is no. Each of the seeds in that one Granny Smith apple will be genetically unique and will produce a tree that's very different than each of its parent trees. So the offspring trees will each produce a unique tasting fruit. Now, the question is, will the fruit from those offspring seedling trees taste good?
Probably not when you're thinking of apples grown from seed. That's because apple trees, like humans, have incredible genetic diversity. So if you want to ensure that your apple tree produces yummy fruit, you'll probably go and buy a grafted tree, which is essentially a clone of the parent tree.
[00:03:11] Introduction to Beech Plums
Now, beech plums, on the other hand, are a little bit different.
And according to my guest today, you'll have a decent chance of success in growing yummy beach plums on seedling trees.
[00:03:24] Guest Introduction: Ken Asmus
My guest today is Ken Asmus from Oikos Tree Crops in Kalamazoo, Michigan. And we're going to talk about why he thinks we should plant beach plums, where we should plant them, and how to breed them successfully from seed.
But before we start chatting, I would love to hear your stories and questions during the show. Do you grow beach plums or other types of plums? Have you tasted these yummy plums that grow in the wild in parts of North America? You can email your questions and comments and stories to instudio101 at gmail.
com. And remember to include your first name and the city that you're writing from. That's instudio101 at gmail. com. I look forward to hearing from you. So now, on the line is Ken Asmus of Oikos Tree Crops. And Ken, thank you so much for coming on the show today. thank you for inviting me. I appreciate it.
I'm so glad you're here.
[00:04:24] Growing Beech Plums: Tips and Insights
so tell me a little bit about beech plums. Now, most fruit trees, I understand, are not native to North America, but beech, plums are. Where would you find them in the wild in North America? they're, they actually inhabit a narrow band along the eastern seacoast of the United States of North America, and that's about It, it prefers a very sandy, open land. environment and very low organic type soil, and that's about it. It's very narrow bandwidth, I guess you could say. So that's when you're, when, you're finding wild beech plums, but, can they be grown in other parts of, of North America? they can.
And the thing was that it's a fairly adaptable plant. it can grow in different types of soils, but it is, a type of plant that prefers this open, sunny habitat and also, probably even benefits from the moisture coming from the ocean, the salty air and other related things related to pollination and also maybe even climate as far as being prefers a more cooler climate.
[00:05:44] Beech Plums vs. Other Plums
So I know that obviously here, in Canada and in the United States, there's lots of plum trees that you can grow more conventional varieties, maybe Japanese plums, European plums. So how are beach plums different? where's the advantage there? the traditionally beach plums were used to make jam or jelly or drinks.
And it's because it's a more tart plum. It doesn't really It never really caught on as a plum that you would consume fresh. it, lend itself to processing. And that's where it really has been for hundreds of years. people still collect it, as a wild plum. Species plum, just like in other parts of the world, they, there might be like Mirabelle plums in France that are collected wild that make, they make a specific jam or jelly or a drink from, or maybe in the South, they would collect and grow Chickasaw plums, in other parts out West, it would be another species of plum.
So plums are universal in that respect. the beach plum happens to be unique in that it's a. a shrub species and is just one of the most productive and diverse. seedling groups that I've ever grown, so that makes it unique in that way. Okay, so just to clarify, you're saying it is a tart plum, you will never get a sweet beech plum that you can just pluck off the plant and enjoy the deliciousness?
there, there are some, and that is a very subjective, term, what is sweet and what isn't. But there are some that have a skin on them that isn't astringent, that is more sweeter and can be consumed fresh. And some people enjoy them that way. But most beech blums have some astringency or, in the skin itself.
And so that's part of the flavor profile of the beech blums. And you, can find individual plants with less astringency or bitterness. but generally that is because you're cooking it and adding sugar. That is less of a concern. it's interesting. I can hear people shouting out of our listeners.
what's in it for me? I like sweet plums. I don't know. Why should I plant this plant? maybe you should. Maybe I should. The idea that, because of this unique, flavor profile with the beach plum, it is unlike any other plum. it isn't like the, usually bland dancin plums or the very sweet, Japanese plums that you buy at the store.
So it is unique in that respect. But with the, I've been making this many thousands of jars of this jam over the years and giving them away to friends and relatives and at farming shows that I was at. And it's universal that everyone likes the flavor of that. So it's not, so there is a, it ends a certain segment of people that would enjoy consuming it.
I think the other thing that from what I read, and I have not grown one myself yet, though that may change at some point. so I understand they're a very beautiful plant with beautiful, fragrant white flowers. It's a shrub, so for people who don't have room for a big tree, that's a beautiful plant to grow.
Now, ease. I have grown plum trees in our community orchard here in Toronto. Out of the three, we originally planted three different cultivars. One is left. And that's because of black knots, diseases.
[00:09:36] Pest and Disease Resistance
So how, where does, where do beach plums stand in terms of pest and disease issues? that's, a good question.
they don't seem to suffer. they, there's no black knot with beach plums, at least not. In the history that I've been growing them, there's never been black knot. And I do have black knot, issues with some of my species plums that I have here. But, that it's very immune to that. But it may have some issues with, in wet years, with rot, forming on the fruit as they develop.
But it's very rare, but it does happen. And maybe some mildew on leaves, some years when there's a lot of moisture, in the air throughout the summer. but that's about it. There's no insect damage to the fruit itself. very minor. the palm curculio, which is a big problem, of course. when it tries to infest the beech plum, the skin is so tough and it has this clear, chemical almost that seems to come out and envelop the, the egg or the larva trying to enter that it, nothing really gets, Into the fruit.
So the fruit is Very clean and very easy to grow in that respect. That is a big bonus. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Because plum trees are short lived. that's one thing. I, too have discovered this because I've tried to grow other plum trees. And they, there's so many things that seem to want to consume the tree as well as the fruit.
And they, 10 years into it, and that's about it, We have an email from Russ in Massachusetts, and he, says here, How long does it take in years from planting a beech plum pit to when the shrub is big enough to produce fruit? That's a good question. It is. There, in general, the, plants will, When I first started doing beech plums from seedlings, I was buying them, from a company in New Jersey that had one year seedlings.
And I planted the one year seedlings, and they began to flower and fruit two years later. So it was a very short period of time. And I think between two and four years of age, the trees should by then begin fruiting. for most seedling trees from actual pit, it may be more like three to five years.
Yeah. Now, in the beginning of the show, I was talking a little bit about, grafted cultivars. And we know that, most of our apple trees and our pear trees and conventional plum trees, they're, grafted and they're wonderful cultivars. We want to rely on the taste of the fruit.
Are there, with beech plums, grafted cultivars that, that are out there? That, that, that is true. And that's another, great history of the beech plum. Because it goes back to Luther Burbank, who actually created varieties. And other people have since created varieties of beech plums. And they have found certain ones with certain things, attributes that they liked.
And they would graft them or root them in some way, bring them into an orchard, and then they would fail. They would not produce much fruit, or it became, a type of thing where there would be fruit one year and none the next, and they couldn't understand this. And this has been repeated a number of times.
The idea of selecting a cultivar is a good idea initially, but with beech plum, it's not that, it's not the nature of it to be separated from its brothers and sisters, evidently. So there has to be, it could possibly work out if it was multi. Colonial type of thing where you had many selections, but the seedlings themselves are fine growing them as seedlings.
but separating them out, every time someone has attempted this, it has essentially failed. So are you saying that there are no, the, there are no cultivars available there? There are still a few. I don't, I think I've seen a couple listed, recently, but it very rare. if not impossible to get.
I started to graft some of them, and what I found was, because the beach bomb plant is a type of plant where it produces profusely for about 10 years of age, then that main stem will die. And then a new sprout will come up from the base. So the root system will continue to produce fruit. So if you had a grafted tree, what would happen is the graft would die eventually after so many years.
And then a new sprout would come up, but that wouldn't be the original graft. So that would be the one thing that we are looking into is possibly rooting. But for now, because of the pollination issue, to say that you have, you offer, grafted peach plums, you're almost You know, you'd be selling them, but then people would plant them, and they'd go, Why aren't they fruiting?
because you'd have to have this combination worked out at some point to be sure that you're getting fruit. from the plants that you're growing, whether they're grafted, especially if they're grafted. that is so interesting because, yes, we're talking about, a plant that comes in shrub form.
And when we talk about apple trees, you've got your one trunk, that's where the graft is, low down. The branches come off the trunk. This is a totally different animal. Oh yeah, it's a completely different animal. And that was probably why some of the original researchers didn't really think of it like that.
They thought of it like an apple. and, on the other hand, we have things like raspberries where you can just cut a chunk out and there you've just, propagated your, raspberry bush. So can't you do the same, cut out some of the suckers of your yummy beech plum and then you have your absolute identical variety.
Can you divide it like that? You can. The plant normally doesn't sucker. of all the different strains we've grown here, there's one that we have that produces. A sucker in form. It actually was a group that someone had sent us seeds from an island off the east coast of, I think it was North Carolina.
And those, for some reason, it's a type of strain that does produce runners. But normally, beach plumps produce very few, if any, runners, per se. but other people have discovered ways of just taking rooted cuttings and growing them. And there's one nursery in particular that's helping us with this.
But, at the same time, I don't want to be the person responsible for its demise. Because so many people have done it before me, that the same thing happens over and over again. for now, I've been growing these seedlings from these little communities that I have here. And those have been Those have worked out and people have been very positive about those.
Yeah, we're going to talk a lot about those communities. A lot of questions came in earlier before the show about that. I've got an interesting question from Brad. He's from Miami, Florida. So Brad says, Hello, I am a wine enthusiast. I heard that some growers have made wine from beach plums. Is that true?
Yes, we've had requests for fruit. in fact, someone had bought, quite a bit of fruit from us one year. We shipped it, and they were, experimenting with wine, and you could easily make a good wine from that. I don't know much about the wine, the winemaking industry, and if anyone along the East Coast has done that, but, you could, I could see where you could, it could easily make a, you could easily make wine with it.
but also for Brad, it's interesting because there was a lot of discussion on the Facebook page earlier. And so I had a message from Eliza from Maryland and Eliza said about beech plums, I've got a hundred of them this year, just planted them. We'll see how they will do. They are seedlings. I will be fermenting them if they work out.
I got them from Maryland State University, and I actually heard from a number of other people who are Turning it into wine. So Brad says, very interesting. Thank you. So yeah, Brad, it seems like people are doing it. How the wine tastes, if there's any listeners who have made this wine, I would love to hear from you guys, That would be very interesting. Interesting.
[00:18:16] Pollination and Propagation
Now, also, so we were talking about, let's talk a little bit about pollination. So you've got this seedling plant, that you planted from a seed or a pit from one of the, plums. So is it self pollinating or do you need to have two or three plants in order to get fruit on your plant?
I think it's not self pollinating most of the time. I really don't know what the percentages are. But I've read studies on beach plums pollination, and what they discovered, it might be partly related to how there's isolation in these communities of beach plums along the shoreline. And they've even found male and female plants of beach plums, which is very unusual.
And it may show that over time, because of the restriction in pollination, it creates these unusual pollination issues. And the only other plant that I know that is like this is the oak tree. Oak trees often will accept pollen from neighboring trees and create a certain amount of acorns, but they'll also accept pollen from more genetically diverse plants, which will then increase the fruit set even more.
And I've often thought that the beech farm is like that in that you have this cross pollination between two, individually, individual plants, and that might be sufficient. But if there's other, beech plums nearby, and there's added bonus of more pollen of different types, that will increase the fruit set.
And so normally people, when they plant our plants, they plant two of them, and for now it appears sufficient. But I rarely will, someone say, don't have fruit set. but the pollination thing is just, you really do need some cross pollination, I believe, to achieve fruit sets. I think it's funny what you're saying.
It's crazy because any other plant, if you have a cross pollinating apple tree and you plant it beside a pear tree, they're not going to cross pollinate with each other. It just doesn't happen. But what you're saying is that to an extent, it does with these crazy little beech plums. They're prolific little guys, yes.
So they, they want this genetically diverse pollen coming and, covering the flowers. And usually they flower at the same time and they have a long pollination period. So there's many insects that you'll see on them. And it's also the last prunus species to flower. So for missing frost and everything, it's very good.
So you're looking at around May. 15th or so here in southwestern Michigan. And, so that's, that helps too. Here's a question from Dan who lives in Minnesota. I'm really good question. Are these resistant to the dreaded plum curculio? Yes. as far as I'm aware, we've never had that issue here and none of my other customers have ever said, boy, I've had problems with that insect.
I noticed there was, someone that had mentioned problems with it at a planting, in Michigan here where they had a lot of other plum species. And they said the curculeos were very bad. It stunted the fruit. But I've never seen plum curculeo. I know I have it here, but it's never, the populations have never built up to the point where it's affected the fruit ever.
And I never find, fruit destroyed. that's good news. now here, this is interesting. So we've got Pete from Alabama says he grows chicksaw seeds. And he says, I made wild plum wine this past year. they grow wild here a lot. but with his plants, finding them, to regularly fruit is harder.
So he harvests wild plums with a friend to make this wine. So how are chicksaws different or similar? that's a plant, that's a, a small tree, plum that is even more tart than the beech plum. It's almost, you can barely get those down, feeding them fresh. it's just extremely tart.
It's even, almost like a, like a tart cherry in flavor and color. And it's, really, that is an excellent plum tree. the yields are always very high here of the Chickasaw plums. We have plantings of those. And they're very, easy to harvest. The, other part of it, with these plums is there's usually colonies of those as well as beech plums.
And so having individual more than one plant would be a benefit for fruiting. Yeah, and we have an email here from Emma. So Emma is in Erie, Pennsylvania. So she says, this is a really good question. Do the plants have to be native to your region? when you're ordering your seeds or your plants, should you consider that?
What is it that she wanted? She wants to know if the plants need to be native to your region. So let's say she lives in Erie, Pennsylvania. Maybe there are no native plants. I don't have beach plums there. I wouldn't think, so in other words, is it okay to take a, a beach plum that would do better on the East Coast and plant it in her backyard?
Oh, absolutely. And the thing is, there's a certain range of adaptability with these plants. And that's one of the hallmarks of cultivation is that you can take a plant that has a rather limited, in terms of the climate and soil and move it somewhere else and it'll still be productive. And I've had requests for seeds of these from all over the world in places that there, there's nothing would grow.
And so they were trying to find, some sort of fruiting plant that would grow in pure sand. And You wonder, okay, if it's going to grow in pure sand, can it grow in clay or something else? And the beach one seems to be fairly adaptable in that respect. So moving it from the beach to Erie, Pennsylvania, would be fine.
Could grow, easily grow there, I'm sure. Okay, Emma, I hope that answered your question.
[00:24:51] Beech Plum Communities and Cultivation
Ken, let's take a few minutes and listen to some words from our sponsors. And after that, we're going to talk in more detail about you learn, how you learned to propagate beech plums, how you got involved with them.
We're going to talk about beech plum communities. are you okay holding on the line for a minute? Sure. Great. Okay. folks, you're listening to the Urban Forestry Radio Show on Reality Radio 101. I'm Susan Poizner from the Fruit Tree Care Training website, OrchardPeople. com, and we'll be back after this short break.
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Welcome back to the Urban Forestry Radio Show with your host, Susan Poizner. Right here on Reality Radio 101. To get on board, send us an email right now. instudio101 at gmail dot com
And now, right back to your host of the Urban Forestry Radio Show, Susan Poizner. You're listening to the Urban Forestry Radio Show on Reality Radio 101. I'm Susan Poizner from the fruit tree care training website, OrchardPeople. com. In today's program, I'm chatting with Ken Asmus from Oikos Tree Crops about growing beech plums in our gardens and orchards.
Now in the first part of the show, we learned why this plant might be appealing to plant. It's beautiful white flowers, it's easy to grow, and it has yummy fruit that you can use for jams and pies. Now, you can, it seems, buy some beach plum cultivars or clones, or you can plant your beach plums from seed.
And we're going to talk a little bit more about that today. But before we delve back into the topic, I would love to hear your questions and comments for my studio guest. So send an email to instudio101 at gmail. com. With your question and remember to mention your first name and location in studio101@gmail.com.
So Ken, I would love to talk to you a little bit about your story. How is it that you started to develop each Plum communities? and, yeah, tell me a little bit about that. Sure. The, the original introduction of the plant to me was really by accident. all great discoveries, But basically, I was reading a catalog, a wholesale company in New Jersey that had them for sale.
And I bought those and I planted a row of a hundred of them. And when they started to fruit, I thought oh my gosh, this is so cool, these things are all different colors and flavors. And I took a whole bunch back home with me and made jam and jelly out of them. And they were just so delicious, I thought, I need to know more about this plant.
And so I began to experiment with them a little bit, just on a small scale, and began Growing the plant from seed, numerous times and reproducing everything from seed just to see what the effects would be. And what did you discover? Because we were saying in the beginning of the show with apple trees, especially if you want to eat the fruit fresh, your chances of getting a yummy apple, are not huge if you plant that apple from seed.
why are beech plums different if they are different? the thing was that, at the same time I was doing this, I was going to these different horticulture shows, and I saw, from the plant scientists that I saw talking about breeding plants, that you would have seven or eight characteristics of something that you want to breed.
And it was very, specific and long term. And I thought, And then you would end up throwing out all the other plants and keeping one or two out of many thousands. And I thought, that's That seems wasteful, but I understand why they did that. But then I thought, can you use the whole population of a plant for growing fruit, rather than cultivars, rather than a single individual?
And what I found was that the beech plum by itself really didn't need improving. I didn't really have to make selections per se, but I did have to guide certain things traits that I wanted, but they weren't very long. It wasn't seven traits. It was maybe only one like one being they have to be productive.
They have to be fruitful on their own and not really have a lot of insect or disease problems. And the beach plumb fit into that. So as I grew more seedlings, of course, I got picky and I wanted to say Oh, I'd love to have all yellow fruited plants. But when I went into that Avenue, I found there was likely to occur to find all yellow fruited plants from a seedling population.
[00:32:26] Challenges with Yellow Beech Plums
And I did find one eventually, but I found that with all yellow plants also suffered from other issues. I would discontinue that and then go back to some other type of fruiting characteristic. from seed. So I try to reproduce it from seed if I could. So just to clarify, so there you are, you have a hundred or two hundred plants and you're trying to filter out the crummy ones.
So if it's not producing fruit, you pull it out, right? If it's, when you did your little experiment to say, hey, I only want yellow beech plums, what did you do? Take all the yellow beech plum plants and put them in a part of your yard, garden somewhere that they would not cross pollinate with anything else, And yes, that's exactly what I did. And then the first seedling, yellow one, I go, Oh, this is so cool. I got all these yellows. And then when they fruited, there was only one yellow in the pot of over a hundred. And in fact, it was worse odds than when I started. Oh my goodness. And so I was like, that's no good.
And then I found another yellow form later that 100 percent of them came out yellow. I realized there was this huge, reservoir of genetic diversity. And, more or less, to accept it, the yellow fruited ones were also very bland. They didn't have quite the punch that the dark black ones or the red ones had.
And I realized that if I made, yellow jam or yellow forms of jelly out of it. It was pretty, pretty bland. it didn't have that same flavor profile, but they were good, fresh. They were a good, fresh fruit. Fascinating. Yeah.
[00:34:14] Defining Plant Communities
So we had a few okay, so essentially you start talking about plant communities.
What to you is a plant? Community. So if you're selling your seeds, you're saying, look guys, it comes from one of my developed plant communities. What does that mean? it, means that, in particular, I would find a group of plants that the main goal was just, production wise, as far as being fruitful on a yearly basis, as well as, just having a robust growth habit.
There was one strain that I found that, a whole, many of the seedlings fruited in their second year from seed. And those were five plants that I discovered in a group of a seed bed that was several thousand seedlings. And I moved those five plants to another location in the nursery. And when those fruited, I created a second and third and a fourth generation from those.
And then I kept getting seeds from those. So that is what I'm selling in the Nana peach plum. The idea is that these are genetically dwarfer, which they are. They reproduce fairly true from seed, which they do. And they also have this diverse fruit set. But in the Nana section, when I tried to go smaller, even smaller, what I found was in They would be weak and die early.
there's a portion, it's almost like when you look at people who have certain dog breeds, there's an issue when you go to a certain point in trying to make something small. and then the, other part of it was just to find, more or less vigorous forms. That grew quickly early on and would set, fruit quicker.
And so then that became an issue. But there wasn't too much of a problem with, the usual on again and off again part. But there were some plants that were less productive.
[00:36:22] Hybrid Plants and Their Issues
And then there were hybrid plants as well. That I ran into issues with. So initially I was just excited that I had the hybrid. And then later I refined it a little bit more.
So maybe some of them are free stone or the fruit is more of an inch in size. Rather than a half inch in size, which is most beach plums. And I tried to create separate strains related to that. Okay, I have a few questions here.
[00:36:52] Listener Questions and Answers: Consider Diversity for Production and Growing from Seed
here's a question from Lee, from New York State. it's more a comment, He says, my main beef with beach plums, generally, is that they're very erratic in production, for no apparent reason. So is, do you have a comment on that, or? yes. I think that's true. I don't know where, if he's got many of them, or a group of them, or if he's talking about wild plants or cultivated plants.
But under cultivation, it's less of an issue. If it's single clones or grafted varieties, yes. Then there's definitely that issue. And I think the, again, limiting Having a greater diversity of the plums solves that problem. Okay. We've got a question here. Okay. From Russ again, Massachusetts. all right.
He says here in Massachusetts where beach plums grow wild. I have gathered many few fruits for eating out of hand to make jam or to use in different desserts like strudel. I save the pits for propagating into new bushes. So here's my question. He says, most of the wild beach plum fruit I encounter are dark and purple.
When ripe, occasionally I run into a yellow fruit, and he thinks it tastes at least as good as the purple fruit. yeah, so he says he saves the pits, and, let's see, yeah, so he's asking the question that you have answered by, he says, I obviously won't know for some time whether the fruit produced from the bushes, grown from the yellow fruited pits will be yellow as well.
So that was the comment of, and you're saying, you know what, buddy, don't count on it. You never know. But it's possible. It's very possible that he would get at least as many yellow ones as there is in the wild.
[00:38:49] Propagating Beech Plums from Seed
But the, other part of it is germinating the seed is quite easy. Do you want me to discuss that?
Yeah, he also says here, and this is related to, I think he's reading your mind, he says, he's attempting to propagate beech plums from seed in his nursery, but he's wondering, would it be possible to get beech plums to grow merely by placing the pits, burying them a quarter of an inch below the soil surface, in the locations where he wants the bushes to grow?
Does that work? Is it that easy? No, that, that is a very good way to do it. There, of course, there's some animals that might dig those up and eat them. But generally, the pits are very easy to germinate. They'll just need a normal cold dormancy. So you'd either plant them in the fall, and they would come up the following spring on their own.
A quarter inch deep is fine. you, may find a portion of the seeds, and rarely all, the seeds will have to go through a second dormancy. But normally a one year dormancy, which would be just cold, and then they would sprout in the spring. They come up rather late. if you have seed that you're trying to really nurture and you do it inside, you would do the same.
You would refrigerate the seed for 90 to 120 days at 38 degrees Fahrenheit. And then pull them out of the fridge and they should crack open. And you can plant them in pots that way. Oh, interesting. Yeah, and then there's some portions of the seed on beach plums, which is a very good survival thing, in that it'll require an additional warm period.
So it'll go through the summer, and then the fall, and then it would be Another winter would come by and go and then it would sprout the second season. yeah, very interesting. Now we have another email from George. I don't know where George is from.
[00:40:39] Making Jam and Jelly from Beech Plums
George says, Are these plums good for making jelly or jam?
Thanks. Yes, that's really the, dominant use of the plant. And I'm sure people have experimented with other things with it, like wine, as we mentioned earlier. But the jam and jelly from it, you can use the sheer gel recipe. I think it's for the plum, which is, eight cups of pulp and six cups of sugar.
It's a little steep in the sugar department for the, for it, but I, it works. you get a lot of, for, for that type of, Jam, it's quite dense, really dark colored, very nice firm texture. Easy, it sets up, the pectin in the fruit is quite high. it really is fantastic. Okay, let's take a moment, Ken.
We're going to take a moment. I think your phone is ringing, actually. I hear it in the background.
[00:41:35] Book Giveaway Contest
I love running contests on the show, and today I have a really great free book. And I know you listeners are out there because you're sending in questions. we've been talking about beach plums, which are native in parts of North America.
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listeners out there, if you would like me to send you this copy of this wonderful book, then all you have to do is send an email to me at instudio101 at gmail. com and put in the title, book giveaway. Or book. Something like that. And tell me why you're interested in native plants. email now because the third person to send in an email request will win a copy of this book.
InStudio101 at gmail. com and put book giveaway in the title. We'll find out who's won after a few words from our sponsors. So Ken, are you okay staying on the line for a couple of minutes? Not a problem. Terrific! You're listening to the Urban Forestry Radio Show on Reality Radio 101. I'm Susan Poizner from the fruit tree care training website OrchardPeople.
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Welcome back to the Urban Forestry Radio Show with your host, Susan Poizner, right here on Reality Radio 101. Send us an email right now in studio101 at gmail. com.
And now, right back to your host Susan Poizner I'm Susan Poizner, and you're listening to the Urban Forestry Radio Show. A program where we learn about fruit trees, food forests, permaculture, aboriculture, And so much more. Thanks for tuning in. So in today's program, we've been talking about beach plums, what they look like, how to grow them, how to propagate them from seed and how to create a plant community that will thrive in your unique climate and conditions.
On the line, I have Ken Asmus from Oikos Tree Crops from Kalamazoo, Michigan, who's been developing beech plum communities for a long, time. So Ken, how long have you been working on this? I actually, the first plantings that I did were in 19, I think it was 80, 1980. and so since then, I've, continually have beech plums.
growing here and many generations of them, little, plots all around the farm. I'm sure you've had lots of different, interesting experience with propagation. We've got another email from Russ, who's very passionate about this, clearly. Russ tells a story. He says, Two years ago, while stratifying a bunch of beach plum pits in my fridge, Some of them were precocious and sprouted in the dark, in their plastic bags, in the fridge.
Those guys are tough. So this happened in February, so I had to sow them right away indoors, I guess in pots. He says many of these survived and are now in their, this year, six inch tall plants. That's tough. Does that, would that happen a lot, where they sprout right in your fridge? Yes, because they're, a lot of the prunus species are like that, and a lot of the cherries, etc.
When you try to grow them, they'll break dormancy quicker. it may depend on, too, the, how old the seeds are, or what they were treated like before. They were put in the fridge, so sometimes that makes an influence. Will they still be a healthy plant, considering that they started in this kind of Yes, that doesn't say anything really about the way the plant would be in its future life.
As a plant, as a beech bone plant, no. Interesting.
[00:48:49] Ken Asmus' Legacy and Vision
Now, when we were chatting earlier, Ken, you were talking about, how passionate you are about this work, and you said, I'm not, going to do this forever, and why is it, what do you want your legacy to be? the one thing that I noticed when I started working with fruit trees was how, I don't want to say, I'm trying to figure out a way to say it nicely, but it seemed rather like a club that I couldn't belong to, because it, the, idea of breeding or having fruit trees, it's either an orchard plant.
Or it's just some seedling and that, that seemed to bother me because I grew up in this, on this farm in Sac, near Saginaw, Michigan, where we had wild blueberry plants. And what a joy it was just to taste all the different wild blueberries. some of them were more stronger, some of them were mild, some of them had big, some of them had small fruit.
And I thought, couldn't you replicate that type of planting? But it wasn't. It wasn't an orchard. It was just a wild planting. And so there never seemed to be anything in between the orchard, what is considered an orchard, and what is considered wild. And so I wanted to create this in between zone where plants were just essentially growing on their own, required minimal human intervention, and at the same time would be more fulfilling to grow.
And I remember going to a fruit growing show And I thought, we're doomed if these fruit growers are nothing, they seem very, they were elderly, they were complaining all the time about their money and how horrible it was to be a fruit grower. And I thought, my God, this is a disaster. who is going to be growing our fruit for the future?
It is worrying. Early 80s, late, late 70s, early 80s when I was finishing up my degree. And I always thought it'd be a fantastic idea to be a fruit, to be a fruit grower, an orchard grower. But when I realized how much it cost and it seemed like all the suffering involved, the toxic elements of orchards themselves, they're not really healthy places to be in.
And I worked for many of these orchards and I realized that, there has to be something that people. Could grow themselves, it would be a joy, and it would be fun to have. And so I just began looking for fruit trees like that, and making them available to people, both as seeds and as plants. And that's been a journey that I guess that's my legacy, is that I introduce people to fruits that they normally wouldn't have, they wouldn't taste.
And so I like that. That, to me, is fun, That's a lovely legacy. That is a lovely legacy. It's interesting. We got an email from Ike, and he says, Can you grow them in Sacramento, California? I don't know the, it's possible. Beech plum is actually found fairly, far south in the range. And it's possible in Sacramento you have enough cold period or chill hours that would fulfill the dormancy of the plant.
So I would say it's possible, but I don't really know for sure. it's interesting because so much of what you have done is experimenting, right? Yes. And I think I felt from you when I spoke to you earlier that's what you want us to do too. It's not just necessarily about us buying your seeds.
That's right. So tell me what you feel about that. What do you want us to do? to do. What do you want to inspire us to do? The thing about this plant is because it's been institutionalized numerous times to try to breed it, that hasn't worked. So I almost want it to be like a crowd source. Breeding period where people can grow it themselves and the thing would be the thing that would be helpful to me would be is that people send the images of their fruits of the beach plum because that's something people normally don't do.
one, one time a long time ago, I got a call from the Martha Stewart program and they had put up some pictures of some beach plums that I sent to one of her homes and she. They planted and they pruned it. And I thought, isn't that marvelous that someone took the time to send me pictures? so that's one thing, is that I've never, all these years I've been doing it, I just get little dribbles of, oh yes, that worked, and that's about it.
But I'd rather see the beach plumb just in, in the hands of individuals, not research scientists or people who have degrees in horticulture, but average people who just want to grow it for the enjoyment and attempt to Have their own beach plumb communities like I do. that's lovely. And is there an email that people out there, whether they have your seeds or they've done it another way, where can they send those pictures to?
And by the way, they could, the best thing would just be to send them to my personal email, which is connected to my business at KASMUS, K A S M U S. And maybe you can put this, on your back here at the end of the program or something, but it's kasmus at oikostreecrops. com. That's terrific. And also folks, if you do have pictures, go to orchardpeople.
com's Facebook page. So Google Orchard People Facebook, and we have a post that's related to this show. It'll say episode 21, beach plums. We'd all love to see your pictures. So do remember to post those. Yeah. Yeah. Any wild plum pitchers are, is of interest to me because it's almost like a universal thing that people know where they are and collect them.
They're almost like thimble berries or morel mushrooms in that way. lovely.
[00:54:48] Market Potential of Beech Plums
now do you think that there's any, I know a lot of our listeners, they are in urban agriculture and they may want to sell these crops. Do you think that beech plums could be a crop that could be a marketable crop for young people who want to grow them?
I think so. There's, there, the limited amount of plant or, fruit available on the east coast. It fluctuates a lot. And so that in itself, the very high price that I got when I first was doing it was amazing. I was getting 10 a pound. This was 20 years ago. And they're just the people will pay for those.
So someone growing it for selling, for sure. It seems like it would be profitable, especially along the east coast. Now, inland, or more of the central U. S., you would present it to somebody and they go, what's that? that, and that creates an educational issue. But, especially along the east coast, I, don't know why there isn't more plantings, other than people are maybe, it's difficult to grow fruit crops unless you, have some sort of, Maybe a financial backing of something that will keep it going for a while until, the harvest comes in for it.
Oh, absolutely. And also, it's a new thing. Somebody's got to be the pioneer. So maybe one of the listeners out there will pioneer it and, sell the jam. Wouldn't that be awesome? And especially since they are easier to care for. Yeah. Then you don't need all those toxic sprays and stuff. You don't, no.
Ken, are you curious at all who's won the book? Yes, who won the book? I know you want to know. Okay, so let's see who's, okay, first we'll go, we've got the winner, but Gary, we've got three emails. So first was Linda. So Linda was the first email. She says, Native plants are ours to keep safe and to breed.
Thank you, Linda. You were the first one. Let's see, number two was Oscar. I'm interested in all plants, but native plants are easier to care for. you're right, I think, Oscar. And who's number three? Peter, you're number three. And Peter says, Native plants are beautiful to look at, work with, and to care for.
So Peter, I would love it if you could email us back your address. And I think Gary in the studio will actually email you as well. And we'll get your address. We're going to send you this really nice book. So I'm so glad you guys all emailed in. I wish I had a copy to send everybody, but Peter gets it as number three.
[00:57:25] Conclusion and Final Thoughts
wow, I am so glad, Ken, that you came on the show to talk with me today about beach plums because, I've learned so much and I'm really curious To grow a couple of plants in our community orchard, but I don't know right. We'll see if we can find some space for them Size wise how tall would they be?
maybe about six foot six foot maybe eight at the very most six or eight feet and how wide do you think? They'd spread equal width the height Generally, yeah. Equal width, so like six to eight. Sure. Feet wide as well. Oh by the way, Peter email just about to say thank you. I think he's excited to get his new book,
Yay. Good. so I am so glad that you came on the show today, and I hope thank you for having me. Yeah. I hope to hear more from you in the future. There's so much we could have talked about, but hopefully another time. Yeah. Okay, maybe we can do that. Okay, you take care and thanks again. for having me on.
Bye bye. Have a good day. Bye bye. Okay, so folks, if you want to post your pictures, I'll also put some more information, maybe contact details for Ken, you, one of the places you can go is to Orchard People's Facebook page. Search for the post that starts with episode 21, beach plums, and do put up your pictures, wild beach plums, or the ones you grow at home.
Okay, that was Ken Asmus of Oikos Tree Crops in Kalamazoo, Michigan. The Urban Forestry Radio Show is just about over for this month. I really hope you enjoyed the show. I have so much more to share with you on my website at orchardpeople. com, including blogs and videos and online fruit tree care training courses for arborists, gardeners, and home growers.
So if you like this show, there's lots more great episodes in my show archive, which you can find at orchardpeople. com slash podcasts. And on that page, you'll be able to listen back to this show or listen to any other archive shows. that I have on there and they're very, there are lots at this point.
They all cover fruit trees, food forests, permaculture and arboriculture. So thank you so much for tuning in today. It was lovely to have you on the, with me and participating and asking questions. So hopefully you'll come back next month. I'm Susan Poizner from the fruit tree care training website, orchardpeople.
com. Thank you so much for tuning in and I look forward to seeing you next month. You've
been listening to the Urban Forestry Radio Show on Reality Radio 101. To learn more about the show and to download the podcast where I cover lots more great topics, you can visit orchardpeople. com slash podcast. The show is broadcast live on the last Tuesday of every month. And each time I have great new guests talking to me about fruit trees, food forests, and arboriculture.
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Thank you so much for tuning in. It's been wonderful to have you as a listener, and I hope to see you again next time.
Thank you for listening to the Urban Forestry Radio Show with your host Susan Poizner, right here on Reality Radio 101.